Vox Cast Transmission 26: Warhammer 40,000 BIG FAQ Discussion Panel

Avatar Tabletop Tactics April 20, 201811  102 11 Likes

The team sit down to discuss the lates ‘Big FAQ’ on Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition!

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Josh_FordTommy IrwinM JelaMike Jello-SkyBrian Spalliero Recent comment authors
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Josh_Ford
Josh_Ford

This is great as I’m just now catching up on the FAQ’s…. a year later.

Tommy Irwin
Tommy Irwin

I miss seeing Colonel’s Imperial Guard on the channel. Colonel was masterful with them. I remember him showing what 40 punisher shots looked like. He didn’t spam it. Hopefully Lawrence will expand his Guard.

M Jela
M Jela

Don’t want to sound self-congratulatory, but I think I devised a much better solution to alpha-strike. First, “no 50% on the ground” stuff. Instead, on first turn only half of your reserves (points-wise) can de deployed on the table. In addition, they cannot be deployed within 9″ of the enemy’s deployment zone. It makes gunline armies make a choice: they either spread out to gain ground, but be vulnerable to assaults, or stand back and be invulnerable to them, but lose table-control. And it also affects reserve-heavy alpha strike armies, because they will have much less percentage of their force… Read more »

Mike Jello-Sky
Mike Jello-Sky

So, 3 flyers per army with dakka loadouts should fix the non deepstriking thing… I think there’s going to be a LOT of troop-heavy lists and list with 3 dakka flyers. FW models are going to make a comeback. I thin you’ll see a lot of quad raper squads again. 9 guns with 48″ reach is nasty, and unless you fly something into them turn 1, they’re going to beat you down. Alpha Legion Noise Marines can use a strategem to deepstrike turn 1 still… they’re SO gross. PLUS they can shoot twice AND shoot again when they die. *shivers*… Read more »

Brian Spalliero
Brian Spalliero

In under an hour you have come up with some answers and defined the nature, in opinions, of the faq. It was poorly done if GW literally base their financial success on these decisions, they have to do better.

Aylicia Nic Klein
Aylicia Nic Klein

I like the idea of a stratagem for the first turn deep strike into the opponents deployment zone. In the video chef mentioned that taking it could be abused by having enough command points to do it multiple times, however you are only allowed to use a given stratagem once per phase. So only one single unit could utilize this stratagem per game. seems reasonable to me.

Ben Walker
Ben Walker

Wouldn’t your squadron fix just mean that tank orders are now three times as effective? Triple strike and shroud for one order sounds tasty to me…

Yann Head
Yann Head

1:03:01 Chef. The rhino can already charge a unit on the 1st floor of a GW ruin. As it does not have a “base”, we measure from the closest point of the model’s hull. Again this is why Knights on a “base” are so infuriating… Spider: I think the easiest way to make it work is to list the models (vehicles, monsters, etc) that measure from their “hull” or “body” rather than their “base”. 1:08:05 Chef, what if all mesurent are from the “hull” or “body” of a model? That way units can attack another at hight level + or… Read more »

Aaron Wilson
Aaron Wilson

My favourite group of people in one room! Totally agree on the Smite rules, nailed it. Again agree on the Character rules! The beta rules for deep strike confused me, the guy went on about how getting alpha striked by a shooting army is really frustrating and they don’t want that. So they went ahead and nered armies most reliable way to get a turn one charge? I think this will see a revision before it goes into matched play. TOTALLY agree on the detachment rules, I can still take a DG, Tzeentch & Khorne detachment and split all strategems… Read more »

Stephen Abdallah
Stephen Abdallah

Where is the Colonel :'(

Andrew Gray
Andrew Gray

With regards to the titanic units attacking troops not on the ground floor, completely agree with your discussed changes, however, i would also suggest they cannot attack with Titanic feet. Unless the knight is doing a handstand there is no way feet could reach something 6″ up

Alex Andersson
Alex Andersson

Completely agree with B-Bone regarding AM. It is a blatant oversight, and while Lawrence argues it’s a point issue, I would just point towards his earlier arguments regarding spam, balance and costing in general. The issue is as always that any inbalance increases exponentially when spam is allowed, hence why AM now gets a remarkably unfair advantage. And while it might be true that they wont go top 8 in a tournament, going up against AM in a casual setting is no fun, even 5-6 basilisks is horrendous in a semicomp game. Also, please do talk more I think you… Read more »

GreaterChickenofTzeentch
GreaterChickenofTzeentch

So Lawrence wants to bring back Daemonkin, eh? i just submitted something to List Analysis along those lines. Takes the studio WE list and adds the requisite Daemon craziness. 🙂

Awaiting moderation, but it’s there.

T.J. Collier (OKnights112)
T.J. Collier (OKnights112)

Great Discussion!!!

BobbyG
BobbyG

Thanks for your comments guys, overall agree, however 2 points for discussions :
– Rule of 3 should overule the 1 commander per detachment rule (at this point why whould they be treated differently than a hyve tyrant or custodes captain on jetbike seriously)
– Personally I am fine with the vehicule units of the guard, because it is THE guard exactly and that is the point. Seing a big guard army reduced to max 3 Leman russes for exemple is sad..

Robe
Robe

Haha Bone right with you on that sigh at 23.10 Nice vid though guys, was surprised with the increase in CPs for the brigade, with that though does anyone think it’d be wrong to have the spearhead, outrider and vanguard giving +2 or 3CPs and maybe the super heavy auxillary +1? Just think it’d help even out the playing field for those elite armies, I don’t see how a force of lots of probably cheaper units might have more strategic know how than a smaller elite one. Would be nice to see non flying tanks balanced a bit as well… Read more »

Martin Pfeifer
Martin Pfeifer

@The B-Bone: I absolutely agree with you at 00:18:36. I also think that although most combat based armies are still ‘playable’, it’s just an easier and more convenient to take a shooty approach at list building. I think most people will simply shy away from the new ‘challenge’ that is makeing assault based armies work. BUT I also think that we will see some completely new approaches to list building appear over the course of the next few weeks. Approached that might not seem to obvious at the moment.

Trogdor The Burninator
Trogdor The Burninator

Could you guys do some grey Knight games (not against Tau lol) to show how to play them now?

Also, ALL FOR 3D6 TERMINATOR SAVES hahah

John Barber
John Barber

As to the melee and buildings thing, I think it should be a bit like old fantasy. As long as they’re in physical contact with the building/ruin,then up to 10 models may attack any unit in/on it. For a couple of reasons, a unit of guardsmen aren’t going to be able to body check and/or prevent a monster from smashing masonry aside to swat at them, nor are they going to be able to prevent some space marines from getting in, and it’s going to be chaos as they seek to circle the thing. And also for the sake of… Read more »

John Barber
John Barber

Instead of making terminator saves ‘better’, I think they should reduce just how many invulnerable saves there are (with some exceptions), and instead make them armour modifications. So a Storm shield might offer +1 to your models armour save etc. Makes them better against -1 attacks sure, but one of the reasons that smite/mortal wounds took off was because it allowed a way to bypass those sort of defenses. I’m still not a fan of the smite changes though. I don’t think that strictly speaking smite was the issue, but rather factors that surround it. Factors such as some units… Read more »

Benjamin Rodgers
Benjamin Rodgers

I think a possible solution to the infantry on terrain problem could be to have it where the number of models that can fight in the assaulting unit are limited to the number of models on the terrain. So if a 30 man unit fights a 5 man unit only 5 models of the 30 man unit can fight, and I feel this gives a nice ‘Hot gates’/ battle of Thermopylae feel to having a terrain advantage.

Johny Miller
Johny Miller

In my opinion, there should be a rule to charge units within upper level of any terrain with bigger models. I would go with : Units with the Monster, Dreadnought and Titan keyword can attempt a charge on any units who are standing on the upper level of a terrain piece. In order to do so the charging units mesure the distance up to the base of the terrain to know the distance of the charge. once the distance is acquired the charging player then mesure the distance vertically. If the base of the charged unit is within 6″ from… Read more »

Tony Molinari
Tony Molinari

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When Lawrence makes a dad joke LOL!

James Daniel Wilcox
James Daniel Wilcox

I see where Chef is coming from with a competitive stand point. But that is going to ruin cool fluffy lists like Salamanders and Imperial Guard, or other things. What I would say is that , , etc can only use the command points they generate from their detachment. The base 3 can be used on any detachment.

Trogdor The Burninator
Trogdor The Burninator

I only take issue with Beta Reserve… There are still armies that can make a T1 charge. Overwatch and screening was a fine counter tactic in all but the most competitive games. You’ve essentially made the Grey Knights codex worthless. Our units are too expensive without the ability to alpha strike, that’s built into their cost. I suspect that’s why we aren’t getting a lot of Grey Knights battle reports lately, they’re just totally untenable now. The Fix? They need to fix turn 1 shooting. Treat all units as if they have moved first turn and disallow turn 1 charges,… Read more »

Micha Ben Toby
Micha Ben Toby

My Slaanesh Seekers and my Seraphim are very happy about the no deep strike turn 1 since that makes them one of the few units that can still ALpha Strike 😀

Magnus
Magnus

So about charging buildings, it could easially be “When in base contact with a ruin you can attack models that are X” away, when measuring in any direction from the base” You could even make that part of the Ruins rules, saying that things with Keyword monster can attack 4″, Titanic has 8″ etc. (I just made up some numbers here.) I think that Infantry should have a rule like this too, but at 3″ maybe? Heck you could even say “If you aren’t on the same floor as the unit you hit, you get -1 to hitting them” (as… Read more »

Emperorofsarcasm
Emperorofsarcasm

This may come across as a bit dense, but I still don’t understand the Battle Brothers rule fully. It may be because I have only ever used single faction armies. Can someone explain it in more detail please? 🙂

Magnus
Magnus

I mentioned this in a reply, but it’s worth repeating in a sense: The Warhammer Community LOVES to get angry about changes, and are quick to shout “It’s a bad idea”, when 8th came out there were posts all over the place talking about how bad the new edition was. And yet here we are less then a year in and most of us have been enjoying the game still. We had to adapt, we had to change our lists, but we still roll dice and have fun. Oh and remember when we first read the deep strike rules? A… Read more »

Magnus
Magnus

Squadrons you say… Right now you can take 12 Daemon Princes, if you so wanted too. And when World Eaters and Emperors Children get codices I will assume they get “Daemon Prince of Khorne” and “Daemon Prince of Slaanesh” and you can get even more of them! (Well actually I think it would still cap out at 13, becuse of the Battle Brothers rule… but still 13!)

Zso27
Zso27

A possible fix to the squadron “spam” issue, where the real focus is basilisks, but you don’t want to hurt leman russ armored companies, is bring back the different data sheets for the standard battle tank and the demolisher (separated the same way their kits are). Allows 3 standard variants, 3 demolisher variants, 3 Tank Commanders and if you wanna dip into imperial armor, 3 LR Conquerors…which I don’t think you can even fit the 12 of them in to 2k points. I really like the idea of the warlord being the focus point for stratagems and all that jazz.… Read more »

John Stephen Hunt
John Stephen Hunt

Very interesting chat guys, great to get your opinion on it all. On the whole I would agree that it is a positive step in the right direction. I feel the deep strike rule is definitely going to be the most contentious. I personally agree the 1st turn whitewashing did need to be addressed, though as it is now it has hurt assault armies more and maybe moved it back towards gunline armies which is a bit boring in my opinion. As a Tyranid player in particular I think it may get a bit tricky as without the threat of… Read more »

Danny Aland
Danny Aland

Agree with you guys whole heartedly, GW are on top form, even though I don’t agree with all the changes in the FAQ, it does clearly show that GW listen. Not only have they been listening, but those lines of communication are still open. I think the main issue with deep striking is that you can bring as many units as you want in at any point. A better fix may simply be to keep the 50/50 rule (but linked to the points system you are working too, I.e. points or power level). Add in an additional caveat: you can… Read more »

Paul
Paul

Great video guys! The alpha strike meta had to go for the good of the game. I’m sorry if you have an army that it effects more than others, I really am but having first turn matter as much as it did up to this point is not indicative of a healthy game.

Maybe a general increase in LOS blocking terrain across the gaming boards will help offset the deep strike nerf.

SirGore
SirGore

I agree with Chef on the detachment and commandpoints views. Play with one army book and if you want allies follow the detachment rules and faction rules but dont award command points if they are not in your main armybook.

SirGore
SirGore

Lawrence I agree about the terminators they need a buff not a point reduction! I would suggest to make Terminators more tough is to set a rule they only take one wound for any source (bolter, lascannon, multimelta and so on does one wound but you still get a better effect from larger weapons). Yeah I know im a genius and your welcome (teases).

Joe Kerr-Delworth
Joe Kerr-Delworth

Commenting as i watch, so i don’t forget my points…! I completely agree with Chef when talking about the deep strike situation. I fully understand and support no turn 1 outside of your own deployment zone (as long as they fully clarify all the special ability quirks… As once again, the faqs are saying one thing and the GW facebook team are saying another….still think it should have been “no deep strike within enemy deployment and if used 1st turn, min distance from enemy units is over 12″ rather than 9″” myself, as this allows some assault tricks to still… Read more »

Dimitri Tkatchenko
Dimitri Tkatchenko

i think they need to add night fighting rule to slightly offset the massive gunlines that now cant be interrupted by first turn deepstrike charge.

James Ellis
James Ellis

Awesome video guys really enjoy it when you are all together chatting 40k. Please keep this up 🙂

malcolm
malcolm

As cool as 2d6 saves for termis would be, it would just be too time consuming since you have to roll the dice individually. I think that one possible way to tone down this deep strike nerf would be to allow deep striking anywhere providing your opponent has had one turn. So, if you go first, this would result in the current scenario where you have to wait a turn. But, it would prevent scenarios where, if you go second, you have to take two turns of shooting before being able to deep strike, which is crazy IMO. Also, (I… Read more »

DakkaJoe07
DakkaJoe07

Play Orks. Oh its +1 to cast smite? Power of the waagh, check. Oh you have to figure out have to play an assault army without alpha strike silliness. Oh, check. We’ve been doing that all along. Oh we can’t take 10 of one overpowered elite unit? Check we kick your ass with ork boys in tshirts. Gg

Alex Smith
Alex Smith

Oi, leave my Guard squadrons alone!

GerManticore
GerManticore

Gate of Infinity, Upon Wings of Fire, etc.. all seem good to go. Cheeky mini-FAQ for the FAQ from GW’s Facebook page.

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Erik Tasker
Erik Tasker

oh man Chef’s comments on the beta deep strike rules PREACH! I am so confused with how these solutions will fix what is happening right now! GK will suffer terribly I think, and the current meta seemed to favor shooty armies over combat armies BEFORE this! It doesn’t seem like it will dissolve the deep striking combat bomb unit, it seems like it’s designed to break alternatives to that that were already struggling 🙁 Of course my friends and I will test it out as much as we can and try to offer as much valuable input as we can… Read more »

Ferrum Salvator
Ferrum Salvator

Good chat guys, very interesting to hear your thoughts. I don’t agree with a change to squadrons, in previous editions units like the Leman russ and hellhound variants had their own data sheets. Eg Leman russ, Leman russ demolisher, leman russ punisher, devil dog, hell hound ect now they are all on one data sheet. If they all had to shoot at the same unit they would have to make abilities like hellstorm and add in gigantic templates from previous editions. Guard have been hit buy physically not having the right amount of orders to give out to squads due… Read more »

DakkaJoe07
DakkaJoe07

Seeing you all lined up I realize that tabletop tactics team needs more beards.

Erik Tasker
Erik Tasker

look at all those lovely faces in the same TT video!

Marcus Creaghan
Marcus Creaghan

Can anyone clarify is the Mawloc affected by the deep strike rules?

GerManticore
GerManticore

Re: Squadrons … just add a rule similar to Psychic Focus or the one-stratagem-per phase that says Matched Play doesn’t use Squadrons.

Apoc, Planetstrike, etc.. would remain unaffected.

Matt Wallis
Matt Wallis

I said this on the forums, but will re-iterate here. The beta deepstrike rule is a game changer for a number of reasons but i think people justifying it are also not looking at the big picture. First off, i do agree that the rules currently do put to much pressure on going first and I don’t like how a well used alpha strike list can ultimately decide the winner of the game by who gets to go first. We’ve seen the meta in the tournament scene adjust to this by incorporating screening units which effectively deals with alpha strike… Read more »