VOX CASTS

Vox Cast Transmission 24: Las Vegas Open 2018 Tournament Report


I go over the amazing LVO 2018 and cover the 6 Championships games that I played there with my Aeldari!

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  • Limbless Carpet

    Got a few spoilers about the elder coming in ghost maker 😉 Can’t wait for the new episode, I refresh the website every morning to check

  • Máté Császár

    Shame to see the lot unpainted army on such a big event, even on the final tables….Well done spider! You will get them on NoRetreat!

    • YEEESSS!

    • Magnus

      Amazed they allow unpainted armies in tournaments of that size.

      • Danny Aland

        I think its a poor show and personally I wouldn’t play with an unpainted army. However, we need to be fair and recognise that these guys that are on the top tables playing the most competitive lists are changing their lists constantly and literally don’t have time to design, purchase, build and paint a list in-between tournaments.

        Some people just want to play top level competitive games, some want to paint to golden daemon winning standards. Its their game who are we to judge.

        Personally, I’m with the spider on building effective but narrative bound armies.

        • Magnus

          On the one hand I see your point, but I don’t think it should apply to a game like 40k.

          If they play that many tournaments, and don’t have time to actually put in the work, then I would instead suggest they borrow from a local club, or use painting services.

          “We are to judge” mostly because we are their opponents, and slapping three colors and some wash on a model isn’t much harder than building it.

          PS: I am not against playing with painted models in casual games, but in my mind “painted only” was always a staple of Tournaments.

          • Danny Aland

            I agree, when the games are being watched live especially on a GW stream. It’s a bad representation of the hobby/community on the official site. In those situations (like at the LVO) it should be painted to a reasonable standard. In fact a “basic” standard of painting (i.e. three colours and a wash, as you said above) would be ideal, as it shows that you only need a very basic level of painting “skills” to get into the game.

            I try to stay away from judging how other people chose to play the game. If you look at it from different perspectives, a competitive gamer looking at a painters army, will think they’re foolish for bringing a brilliantly painted but uncompetitive army to a tournament and vice versa.

          • Magnus

            I’m really not judging the player, but the Tournament Organizers.
            I don’t blame the competitive gamer for not painting when (s)he doesn’t need to.

            My point is that you need to set the standard at some point, I mean we all expect a model to be built fully (maybe not with all the small bits like grenades and pouches), It takes time to fully build a model? Why should the tournament player need to put a backpack/head/shoulderpads on his marines? It’s not an integral part of seeing what the model is, and it takes time to build all that. (and I have played games VS people who hasn’t fully built their models, although in that case it was due to painting)

            It’s hyperbole of me of course, but the point sis that there is a boundary of how much work you have to put in in order to play no matter what.

          • Danny Aland

            Cool, I think we actually agree! As I said particularly when the games will be streamed online. There needs to be a reasonable level of painting. You can’t set this game by game, so would have to be a standard set for the tournament.

            It may put a few people off, but long term it would make the game more appealing to viewers.

          • Magnus

            Yeah, I think we do agree 🙂

            Someone should make a “How to paint 3 colors minimum” youtube channel. There are some models that can come out very decently with only three colors.

          • Danny Aland

            That’s about my level at the moment, may have to do that!! Lol

  • James Turnbull

    Thanks for the update! Was really interesting hearing about the importance/prevalence of scouting or infaltrating units for board control. Seems like it makes armies reliant on deep striking like grey knights pretty much untenable.

  • Magnus

    On the topic of game length:

    Would it be an idea for TOs to go down in points. In 7th we played mostly 1750 or 1850. With the promise of faster games we went up to mostly 2000 points.
    I’m wondering if 1500 might be the right size for 8th.
    You can still fit 90+ models into that, but it restricts “the rest” you can take to a large degree.

    I personally like that big units are back, I never was a big fan of the MSU meta, but it sure made for faster games when you rode around in your rhinos and shooting your melta guns out of the top hatch.

    • Indeed, I don’t really see a solution to easily get games completed unless we reduce the points to 1500.

      • Magnus

        I’m going to a local 1500p tournament soon, will be interesting to see how it goes.
        Had a 1200p tournament when 8th came out, and I feel that was too little.

        I know you guys talk about restricting detachments too, would 1500p and “2 detachments” help speed up the game? Or do you think it would only move the time sinks into just more of the same units?

        • I think it would need the points reduction overall, although I also do support the restricted 2 Detachment set up.

          • Magnus

            Although at 1500p I find it hard to get three decent detachments going, but after listening to some of the lists taken at the LVO I realize that I’m not enough of an evil genius to make such lists. Here I am making One Codex Chaos armies, when I should be making soup! 😀

    • JamieY

      We’ve been playing 2000 in 8th, again with the promise of faster games but finding that we’re struggling to finish in less than 4 hours which is a bit much. Having said that playing 1500 points as a primarily Blood Angels player would significantly reduce my ability to load up on the CP that make 8th interesting and thematic for BA. I can just fit a brigade into 2000 points and I can spend all 12 CP by the end of the first battle round! It’s a hard choice to make between speed of play and trying to make the game as deep and enjoyable as possible

      • Magnus

        Well we are specifically talking about Tournaments here, where you play 3 games in a day. In those cases I think speed is more important than if you can get 12 command points or not, and to be fair the brigade is a silly detachment that are a huge boon that only a handful armies or builds can take. I would rather just have the base CP be 5 points instead of 3, because I agree that they make the game fun.

        In most casual games I prefer bigger games though, because I will usually just play 1 game that day, or maybe 2 if we have time.

        Every point level has it’s strengths and weaknesess, I think for competitive play that there is more challenge in making a lower point game, because I can’t get “all my toys” and have to carefully pick what I think is best.

  • Aaron Paulding

    This is such an inspirational video for me. I love so much how you approach even competitive games, making sure there is a uniqueness and a theme.

    I’m running Ulthwe Eldar right now and loving them so much, especially Eldrad. People always seem to be taken off guard by how strong he is. Also Warlock powers are SO strong. I own 2000pts on the nose of Eldar models and as money is tight I’ve been racking my brain on what models to expand with and I think this gives me some good ideas. I love the idea of foot-dar and guardians seem like a lot of fun, might go for the storm guardians though for fun (not much of a competitive player).

    I’ve been back and forth on the Hemlock I own, honestly. I love that it’s a psycher (even though I forget to use it in the psychic phase usually) but the firepower always seems to underwhelm me. I think I need to practice using the leadership debuff much more as that is such a valuable asset that I just forget a lot.

    Speaking of the Hemlocks though, as I’m watching I don’t have my codex with me but as per the single use of a psychic power per turn aside from smite, can you use Protect and Jinx in the same turn as they are kind of technically the same power?

    Either way, great job! Thanks for sharing. I’m so excited to see the tactica report with this list and more of the campaign.

    • No worries Aaron! Glad I could provide some ideas 🙂 And yes, the Eldar FAQ states that they count Protect/Jinx count as seperate powers for casting, so no issues there 🙂

  • Gavin Magenty

    I love this VOX. I have been waiting for it to come out with baited breath, being a staunch Pure Ulthwe competitive player. I have been playing 2 blobs of guardians since the codex came out, web way striking with a winged-autach in between for reroll 1s and it has worked well. I found that a savvy space marine player would use the intercept strategem if I brought them in within 12 inches of an Infantry blob (hellblasters/aggressors) so started running a warlock skyrunner with quicken so I could deep strike them over 12″ away and then move them in the psychic phase, which helped. Have to watch for the Eldar intercept strategem though as just have to be in sight of a farseer to get blasted by a big squad of reapers stood within 6″ of him. Found that one hard to deal with with ynari reapers castled in a large terrain piece… So I bought 3 fire prisms for long range bang bang! 6xd6 s6 ap -3 shots rerolling to hit and to wound (with strategem) does the trick!

    Great trick with the support platforms and protect though. I will definitely add this to my toolbox! Hadn’t thought to protect the guardians, as I have been too busy jinxing primarchs!

    • Yeah Prisms are great! I nearly took them, but replaced them with the Shining Spears. I’ve got 3 Prisms painted up, so you’ll see how I use them on the channel very shortly 🙂

  • Imperial Grunt

    LVO was very fun, even though my Tau list pretty much got creamed. The overall event is amazing like Lawrence stated. Definitely going back and will be going back to FLG’s SoCal 2018 as well. Maybe my Scions list will be ready by then.

    Thanks for your thoughts on strategy and tactics in this video, the ITC scenarios do make you think about how to best play your army for each game.

    I also agree that perhaps 2000 points is too much for a tournament. But this could be addressed by scaling each match, each growing in points. And players would be forced to make lists that could be broken down into these point levels. For example, game one is only 800 points and you get 1 hour, 30 minutes. Game 2 is 1200 points, and you get 2 hours, etc…etc…until game 6, a full 2000 points with 3.5 hours to play. I believe that will also better test the tactical agility of the players as well.

    • That’s a very interesting idea actually, and something I hadn’t considered before! I would be keen to try it 🙂

      • Imperial Grunt

        That would be cool to see!

    • Magnus

      Hehe I recently made a Death Guard list that sort of fit that theme, 750, 1500 and 2000 to be exact. The first is for a Doubles Tournament, the second for a normal Tournament, and the last for “how I want it in the end”

      Would changing out units from one step to the next be allowed though? I can see arguments for yes and no.

      • Imperial Grunt

        I would see it as everything having to come from one 2000 point list, so a player is not bringing separate lists. That might also “balance out” some of the most competitive “go to” pure 2000 point lists. But to be honest, I’m rather new to the game so I don’t know if the concept would work for every single faction.

        • Magnus

          No matter what system you adapt it will always benefit some factions and lists over others.
          It’s the same if you say “no named characters” some armies will suffer a lot, where others will just fill the void with other things. etc.

          I think your suggestion is an interesting one, and I think it’s good for the hobby as a whole that Tournaments use different compositions so that we avoid cookie cutter builds. (Although the meta in 8th has been changing quite quickly in less than a year)

  • Tom Batsford

    Great recap. I have been playing an ulthwe eldar battalion detachment in my Drukhari army with two units of 5 rangers a farseer a spiritseer and a 20 blob of guardians with turrets and damn do they put work in. They synergise so well with Drukhari giving a psychic phase and a good deepstrike drop. They are really deadly with all the stratagem support, here’s hoping for some spicy Drukhari equivalents!

  • Danny Aland

    Minor fluff note, Hemlock wraith fighters are piloted by Spiritseers not Warlocks. Although Spirtseers are a more specialised form of warlock, they are more closely associated with Iyanden, still a psyker so obviously have an association with Ulthwe too.

    Will never look at Guardians in the same way, you always come with a surprise, good to hear you’re still learning too!

  • Dimitri Tkatchenko

    Sounds like my current LGT army is going to fail badly!! But it will be a beautiful death. However I think that all these events have not changed 7th ed to 8th ed enough. I think they should increase the time per game.

  • Aaron Berezowski

    awesome vox cast. been waiting to hear how you did. looking at the top lists though i just knew you couldn’t stay way from having a fluff driven list and it was good to see. the madness of codex mashing right now must takes days to get it sorted, and takes away from the joy of the fluff for armies i find. Glad you had fun hope to find myself their in the future, awesome work man.

  • Aaron Bratt

    Was looking forward to chatting with you guys this year but had to cut my LVO short, we had a pet emergency back home. Excellent vox cast as usual.

  • Sam Shand

    You talked about reapers with there unmodified to hit, but didn’t mention one of their clutch strengths. The Exarchs tempest launcher not needing line of site. I think this is super important within a tournament that has line of site blocking 1st level ruins.

    Great vox per usual and as mentioned on instagram can’t wait for Eldar to feature more on the channel.

  • Great stuff! Any thoughts on the much-discussed sportsmanship shenanigans that went on on the final day?

  • Joe Kerr-Delworth

    So, i took Eldar to the Last Chance Open the week before the LVO, and my list was similar to yours, but, in probably a far less efficient way haha! Like you, i didn’t want to take Reapers, so, the core of my list was Shining Spears, 1 unit of 9 and 1 unit of 3 – the 3 acting as an Autarch Skyrunner bodyguard as such. I had an Alaitoc battalion, Saim-Hann outrider and a Biel-Tan supreme command detachment.

    Most of the games, i had a farseer and blob of 20 guardians in the webway, deep strike in, cast guide and fortune on them, and let them delete a couple of back line units. These guys were often hard to shift, and they provided me with easy ITC points, when taking missions like Recon and/or Behind Enemy Lines. Likewise, i had 2 Hemlocks. The reasons why i took these, is simply because Auto-hit, can target things like the Reapers and other units turn 1, if they aren’t hidden away, and again, are fantastic at point scoring. I used Jinx and Restrain on mine though, the idea being that Restrain might slow down an alpha unit and give me another turn (though didn’t really come into play much). Hemlocks were fantastic for secondary missions. (in 4 of my 6 games i maxed out my secondaries for me)

    Saim-Hann 9 man spear unit and the Autarch with Nova Lance were great units! Stacking protect, empower and conceal on them and then using quicken on them, alongside potentially using the -1 to hit stratagem made them an incredibly hard unit to kill via shooting. Their ability to advance and charge via the Saim-Hann stratagem was amazing, meaning i could move 44″ in a single turn and still shoot and charge without penalty AND get a re-roll 1’s to hit in combat. My final game, saw me up against 14 Astra Militarum tanks. It took 3 turns of shooting for him to finally bring down my unit of 9 Spears. Fantastic. The Nova Lance Autarch consistently killed things like Leman Russes in one go with the help of Doom.
    To finish off the Outrider i had a unit of 2 Starcannon Vypers. Looked good initially, hardly ever died, picked up a few points due to Recon, but didn’t do much else. 150 points of meh. Hardly any decent targets for the starcannons as well.

    I did find i struggled massively via Mortarian though. All it took was a couple of powers to fail/get denied and i found my key units just failing to do the damage and getting killed in return from mortal wounds and combat.

    I also took 2 units of 5 Dire Avengers. Didn’t really do much for me at all. Hid in a Wave Serpent turn 1 with 2 Spiritseers, then just kinda sat doing nothing.

    Biel-tan supreme detachment was 1 Farseer Skyrunner and 2 Warlock Skyrunners. I took Biel-tan for the relic on my warlock with Quicken. The +1 to cast stratagem plus re-rolls from the relic gave me a very reliable Quicken cast.

    Things i’d do different next time?
    I’d get rid of the Biel-tan detachment and change the Alaitoc battalion to Ulthwe and take Eldrad. Allows me to drop both Farseers. Doom, Executioner, Fortune and Guide are all great, but i could have easily done without Fortune.
    Hemlocks would have moved to an Air wing detachment with a Crimson Hunter Exarch. I felt like i really missed the extra str 8 shooting at times.
    Dire Avengers would definately get dropped, and have 2 units of Rangers instead. Simply just extra deployment options.
    I’d drop the 2 Spiritseers and replace them with 1 Warlock. I felt like i could get away with not using Conceal, so 2 skyrunners and 1 foot warlock would give me the 3 key powers.
    Vypers would get changed to another min unit of 3 Spears (with star lance) saving me a load of points.
    This then also leaves me with options about removing the Wave Serpent due to not needing the transport anymore.

    People are still so hyped about Dark Reapers, but, i truly believe you don’t need them to have a highly competitive Eldar list. Likewise, i feel you can get away with not running Ynnari as well.

    • Joe Kerr-Delworth

      In regards to time. With 2000 points and a 2.5 hour game time, it was difficult at times. Some games were quick, often tablings around turn 3, however, other games (and i know a lot of people at the event experienced this) often failed to get past turn 4. Very few games got to, let alone ended naturally, on turn 5 or 6. It also had a key impact on the scoring. Win by tabling and you tended to get 30+ points, get timed out and you often only got low to mid 20’s at best. That however, is an issue with the ITC scoring rather than anything else.

      Try as you might, going up against mass shooting that just re-rolls some hits and/or wounds just ties the game up for so long. My 4th game was against 3 units of Berserkers that massively slowed down the game due to 1 turn of combat where they could re-roll due to a Dark Apostle and got to fight twice. If we hadn’t of got timed out, i’d have been tabled a turn or 2 later (couldn’t kill Morty 🙁 ) but, as a result of going to time my opponent missed out on something like an extra 12 points.